Celebrating the Life and Legacy of Thane Tienson

Peter Ravella  0:00  
Hello, everybody and welcome to the American shoreline podcast. This is Peter Ravella. co host of the show,

Tyler Buckingham  0:06  
and this is Tyler Buckingham, the other co host.

Peter Ravella  0:08  
Tyler, one of the great pleasures of starting coastal news today and the American shoreline Podcast Network back in late 2018 is the community of people that we have had the privilege of working with, particularly on ASPN and all of the great hosts of shows on our network who really bring the coastal conversation and coastal issues to life for our listeners. Today's a little bit of a sad day because we're here to talk about the loss of one of our great hosts on ASPN Thane Tienson from Portland, Oregon, who co hosted the changing waters podcast with Brad Warren. And we're going to talk about theme today his work and contribution to coastal America. And it's a sad show but a really worthy show to do because thing was an incredible guy in a concrete credible friend to coastal news today and ASPN and in a personal friend. So I'm really looking forward to sharing with our audience more about Thane Tienson.

Tyler Buckingham  1:13  
I am, as well Peter, and one just cannot help but think of the legacy that Thane leaves behind on the coast on the American shoreline. In in the ocean with regard to the his his life's work, protecting the environment, doing fisheries stuff, working with Native American tribes and whatnot. I mean, this guy has an amazing list of accomplishments, and we were so fortunate and lucky to share his voice on the American shoreline Podcast Network. So, yeah, it's a bittersweet show today, ladies and gentlemen, but I think you'll enjoy learning about this amazing, amazing coastal citizen named Thane tinson. But before we get into it, we'll have a quick word from our sponsors.

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Peter Ravella:
Well, as we jump into this show, I just want to remind folks a little bit about Thane's background before we dive into remembrance and a memorialization of him. Thane was an attorney in Portland Oregon for decades graduating from Lewis and Clark law school, my alma mater as well, Although he was about 10 years ahead of me. Thane practice with Landy Bennett and Blumstein in Portland, Oregon for decades. He was from the great city of Astoria, Oregon, at the mouth of the Columbia River. Thane was a thing was up there in the air. So you know, he served in the army two Purple Hearts from the Vietnam War. An attorney and in even though he was in his 70s Thane was still training for marathons and running marathons and ran every almost every day and amazing physical being, I gotta say, a real focus in his life on fisheries rights, indigenous tribes, tribal rights in the Pacific Northwest, he practiced widely in Washington, Oregon, and Portland, an incredibly politically active man, just a real Renaissance person with broad interest, incredibly intelligent, just one of the favorite people I've ever met in my life. So we're going to be talking about Thane with a couple of really important people that can really help us really delve deep and understand things I think life. Joining us today on the American shoreline podcast is Greg Tozien, a journalist and author and playwright and a longtime personal friend of Thane Tienson. He is the digital strategist for big brands stories, and is currently working on a sci fi trilogy, which is going to pop into the world with great plume, I'm sure so I'm looking forward to Greg's latest release of that series. And Also joining us is Brad Warren. And Brad is the president and co founder of the national fisheries conservation center. He's joining us from Seattle. Greg is joining us from Tampa, Florida, Brad as head of special and close working relationship with Thane, through the National fisheries conservation center, and they co hosted the changing waters podcast on ASPN. So two of the closest professional friends and personal friends of Thane's are with us today. And I'm really looking forward to talking about things contribution to the world.

Tyler Buckingham  5:41  
You know, Brad, if you wouldn't mind if we started with you, and if you would just talk a little bit about thanes work on the waterfront of America up there in the Pacific Northwest.

Brad Warren  5:54  
Sure, happy to do it. And proud to. Thane was with a big heart on the waterfront. And among people who were getting stepped on among tribes among small time fishermen who are getting really, in some cases scapegoated by bigger industrial interests who wanted their own crimes against the salmon forgotten and did their best to blame fishermen. If there are many of these cases that he took on, often on a pro bono basis. And it was one of those that first drew my attention to him. We'll get to that in a little bit. But before I knew him, I met him in 93. But before I knew him, he was helping to get women who worked at sea on fishing vessels, some protection under law, and then later making sure that the law was enforced mandated reporting of sexual assaults. And this was a major piece of work and mostess and others worked really hard on this. And it was it required a kind of warriorship. And they, they work together well on that they made some real ground, there's still more work to do. In in 93, I met him shortly after he was one of several attorneys who wanted a kind of landmark case on the Columbia River. Again, as a pro bono volunteer attorney for a small boat fishing Association out of a story of his hometown, and helping tribes as well. Big industrial interests that use a lot of hydro power from the river wanted fishing shut down under the Endangered Species Act, so that they as factory owners could continue to profit from the biggest salmon killing practice on the river, which is controlling the river flows to maximize hydro power production, at the expense of fish. This kills millions of salmon on their way to the sea and back every year. And they do want a federal ruling in the court of Judge Malcolm Francis Marsh who swatted down the industrialists with this line, it's been quoted many, many times saying, quote, to permit these plaintiffs to proceed with their claims under the ESA would be akin to permitting the fox to complain that the chickens have not been fed. Now he was just it was it was a classic. So I met him shortly after this, and I'll describe the scene later. But he became instantly I the sense I was watching a brilliant litigator, talking about what he was doing, people were really moved by this decision. And he was standing up for justice against the powerful interests. And he he really had kind of the air of a guy who knew how to wield a broad sword in court. And he did it with a great heart, not with viciousness, but with kind of a determination to get justice. He also became one of the first people we recruited to the Board of national fisheries conservation center when we started in 94. And in that role, he stayed with his life. It was a long serving patient and generous man. Quite a mentor, I felt many times like I had stumbled into an unknown older brother, who just taught me a lot. He one of the things that he did in our organization, which is a collaborative problem solving organization, really promoting solutions that allow people often who are part of the problem to become the solution that's a core part of the axiom. And we would come to situations now and then the board would look at things and say well, this is amazing. Everyone's just fighting and calling names. It's not gonna work. There's no opportunity for collaboration here. Should we find a way to use litigation? Every time? Shane, the brilliant litigator, Thane was the one who said, No, don't do it. He knew what it cost. He knew the limits. He knew how so many problems that are really high conflict, difficult problems. You don't get there by suing people, you get there by working with them. And you know, for a guy who is it's kind of like it takes a warrior to make peace. He knew his he knew his game.

Among the things he did in that period, shortly after that, he became the founding director of the West Coast seafood processors Association. The seafood processors had essentially no organization to represent them no coherent voice. And he suggested that they should create one so that they could function with a degree of, you know, organization in unity. He ran it and got it started in the beginning. And it's fair to say he was an ardent democrat his whole life very much and up with the little guy liberal. And the seafood processors. Lean pretty hard to the right. And they're, they're not very many Democrats in the senior ranks. And I think they always felt like they should be playing their, their own cards on that one. So it wasn't the best fit politically, but they exist because of him. And they they remember him even though I've heard some of them saying they were grateful for his work to help them get started. Thane in 2004 was one of several attorneys who won another landmark case on the Columbia River that reached I believe far further. And so a lot about this, I'm still learning but the big persuaded the EPA to set thermal water quality standards to protect salmon and other aquatic organisms. And the issue and it's a it's a big one is that not only do you have climate change, you have these dams on the river, they create these son heated slack water pools behind the dams that heat up in the sun every summer and reach temperatures that just flat kill fish, they kill him by the millions, again at the beginning and end of their journey to sea. And that that's a he's both an amplifier of, of the global warming signal. And its own major cause of huge salmon mortality. And you know, growing up in a fishing town having worked in the plants on the waterfront indicate I think he might have been a dead cat when he was young. He was like, No, you don't get to wipe out this resource. That's not okay. And it's still an ongoing effort. there's a there's a tremendous amount of work to get this control on the overheating of the river in these sun heated pools. But it's a it's a big step toward recognizing that if we if we want to have clean water, and we obviously do, and we want, we want living things in our world to persist, we have to maintain the kind of thermal and chemical parameters they need. In in the last few years, thank god very active with a group that was not part of something we were involved in, but with folks who were very critical of the shellfish farming industry. And they won, I think he was maybe a pro bono to them. I don't know the details of this. They want a case that essentially blocked the issuance by the Corps of Engineers have a nationwide permit for shellfish fun. They said there are some environmental impacts here that need to be managed. And the thing was very proud of that work. It was not something again, we were involved in in FCC, but I know he felt very strongly about it. And it's really a wide range of issues. Among the latest things that he did, I believe it was just last year. He helped this Chinook tribes, which is a group of four tribes in the Lower Columbia River, get the right to petition again for federal recognition. And one of them really many tribes nationwide that have fallen through the cracks and not been recognized either under formal treaties or other administrative agreements that mean that they're fully empowered to operate and to access federal funds and to to manage their own lands and waters. And it's it's a huge issue among tribes, not all the tribes want these sort of unrecognized tribes seen and acknowledged. But things saw them again as the little guys who who fell through the cracks and we're getting a raw deal. And he went to town for that. And it's just it's kind of classic of his his Career, there was a true line. She She knew how to swing a broad sword for the little guy.

Peter Ravella  15:06  
I couldn't agree more, I think his commitment to the public good if we can say, to the working men and women of the coastline, especially in the fisheries, community, his commitment to indigenous rights, and environmental law is just a profound body of work over his 50 years as an attorney, Greg, you knew him as a very close and dear friend, we all met about the same time you and I insane when we were doing the Oregon insider newsletter back in the day. And Greg, would you help our audience understand Thane as a person and what what struck you about him as a as a dear friend and a human being?

Greg Tozien  15:53  
Yeah, thank you, Peter. And Brad, you know, I was glad to hear Brad, say that piece about, he felt like a, you know, a protective older brother, because Thane was the eldest of four. You know, men. Born in Astoria, as you indicated, I'm the eldest of five. And so I didn't have an older brother until I met Thane, you know. And I literally met him. The weekend I moved to Portland from Tampa, I've been a journalist for many years in Florida, and film critic, and then I was a film critic in Europe. And when I moved back from Europe, I didn't want to live in Florida anymore. So I moved all the way across the country to Portland. And the second day in town, I had written some plays that had been done in the United States. And, and I wanted to see actors. So my wife at the time, who was a performer said, Let's go to this theater. And I'm going to see this woman from the city and we're going to want to look at these actors. And I said, Okay, and I wanted to look at them, too. Okay, so I wrote a play important, which I ended up doing course, writing plays. And Thane was on stage with a bunch of people doing monologues. And he had on a chambre shirt and a pair of jeans and topsiders. And he did a monologue about a fisherman's son. He was a fisherman son, at which, again, speaks to his love of the ocean and of Oregon. And I thought he was just another potential actor. So but he was by far the best in the class, I think was because it was so close to his heart, you know, and he was such an emphatic and well spoken person. So I went up and shook his hand I said, I'm just some playwright, and moved to town. And I wanted to see actors I want to tell you how you were the best of the class. You're really great. Thanks, you know, and I said, My name's Greg Tozien. Thane Tienson. So I then I leave, and I thought, never see this guy again. The next morning, was having a cup of coffee at a coffee cart. And he, he, I felt somebody grabbed my shoulder says, Hey, Tozien, he remembered my name, and there is in a suit with a brand new vehicle. And I said, Where did you steal the clothes and the car? He says, No, I'm not an actor. I'm an attorney. And, and he says, What do you want to do? And I said, I don't know. I'm looking for a job. I went to work in environmentalist and he introduced me to you, Peter. Yeah. And I worked at the Oregon Insider. That was the kind of guy Thane was, he, wherever I went in the world with him when we went to Paris together. And we, we would go to, you know, San Francisco, see Stanley Kubrick's objects and things would go to New York. When I did Les Paul, I interviewed him, he went to New York with me and met Les Paul and stuff, my brothers came up and stuff. And by the end of the end of a weekend, everybody you knew, Thane was their best friend, and Thane knew everything about them, you know, and I think that's what made him such a great attorney. And why I asked Brad saying why he would defend anyone he was for the underdog, you know, and he knew everything about them and what their lives were like, and how hard they had it. And he worked endlessly to protect them, and to protect the fish and the ocean. You know, I mean, he made you want to be a better human being, you know, and I think I was somewhat better when I was in his glow. It was just one of those remarkable people. I know, people have met people like that, you know, and but you don't always I had the great pleasure of being he was my best friend for 30 years. Unfortunately, he just died as you know, of a heart attack, but, and I had already moved to Florida, but he was going to come and see me and you know, and and that kind of thing. And, you know, but yeah, he's just one of those people who you meet who you can never forget, you know, and it's one of the best people you will ever meet in your life, you know, and he was a great attorney, too. And he had a great passion for the Northwest and for the the ocean, you know, and, you know, what else can I say?

Tyler Buckingham  19:42  
Well he's clearly he's clearly just a, just a legend. You know, as we like to say here on the American shoreline podcast, he was a living legend. alive. We we it's seems everyone knew his power, it kind of emanated from him. And, you know, this is kind of an interesting show for me to do because of the three of you, gentlemen, I have not. I mean, I did a couple shows with Thane, you know, I just didn't have the opportunity that you guys had. It's just so cool to, to learn more. And I would like to go back, if I may, Peter, and learn a little bit more about this, this era, in Portland, during this Oregon Insider, like meeting zone. I mean, what was what was going on? Like, what was the vibe, like on the street? What was what was Oregon? Like? What were the issues of the day? And what was Thane focused on at that period of time, that led him into and around your lives?

Peter Ravella  20:54  
Well, you know, Greg, I think Thane was on the Oregon Environmental Council board of directors at the time, and is, and the Oregon insider was a publication of this small nonprofit organization covering environmental regulatory developments in the Pacific Northwest and in Oregon. And it was, it was a publication that, you know, I was trying to put together for the organization, it was supposed to be a business development deal. And lo and behold, Stan gives me a call and says, you know, you need to talk to this guy, Greg tozien. And he's an amazing journalist. He's new to town, he's looking for something to do. And I needed some help. And I needed a writer. And it was a gift. I mean, this was one of the great gifts I've ever received was my friendship with you, Greg, and, and with Shane, and it was just a blast working together at that little publication down on the basement of an old house in Portland, Oregon, and everything from the production to the printing to the mailing. And we did we did it all. And it was a great experience. You know, it was a time, Brad and I think that you're aware of in the late 80s were the same and litigation in the protection of the salmon fisheries runs on the Columbia River was an active topic. And Thane was highly engaged in all of that work. You know, I just have so many great memories of that time. Greg, with you and Thane. One of the great things about doing that little publication as we kick off on Thursday afternoon go down to what was that bar, the wine bar we used to go down to and get a bottle of wine a great bottle of red or

Greg Tozien  22:34  
There was that, But to answer that your co hosts question there. I believe that Portland now first, Portland is my spiritual home, Portland and Paris. I My hometown is Tampa, Florida where I grew up, and I'm back for my brothers, my parents have died. And but so i'm back with them supporting them. I have four younger brothers, like I said, but Portland was magical, in the late 80s. And the 90s, particularly, they were, were famous now for all the bands, we had the grunge bands and things like that. So Seattle, but it was you could get anywhere in 15 minutes on a bicycle. It wasn't overcrowded, people were, the bus driver had a PhD, you know, college bookstores there. It was magical now it's just like Hong Kong. I mean, their high rises, high rises everywhere. And of course, everybody knows all the heartbreaking problems that Portland's had as a result of the Trump era and, and the protests and Black Lives Matter, getting, you know, bent out of out of all, you know, truth about what that movement was about, and people blaming them for, you know, vandalism and violence, which of course, they were never responsible for, you know, a few bad actors. But, but at that time, Portland was so open to your point. You know, Peter, Thane introduced me to you the next day, the second day, I knew him, you know, and we work together and had so much fun. And we still go to that bar. Remember the bar we used to go to at night? It was it was great, because Portland was really a black white town, you could go into this bar, what was that? Remember? Jim Macy played there? And we would go the candlelight remember the cap?

Peter Ravella  24:20  
Yeah, the candlelight lounge.

Greg Tozien  24:22  
It would be half black people and half white people in America at night. In the 80s, which was pretty rare. There was never a single fight that I ever saw or any argument or anything, everybody it was a Blues Club. It was still comfortable, you know, and, and world class musicians. I mean, people who, even when I, you know, went back to France with Thane and stuff, because they're so in debt, we went to a blues record shop that I know in Paris, and they knew Paul DeLay, for instance, who was one of the greatest American harmonica players ever, and was and used to hold down the jam at the place that Peter and I would go and thing would go to at night. It was that kind of town, you know, it was, it was hitting way above it or punching way above its weight class, you know? And, but it was still very doable. Now, of course, it's just, it's still a great great town, you know, but it's overcrowded and, and it has all the problems that cities have now, but it didn't have them then.

Peter Ravella  25:18  
And it was before it got expensive and got big when I moved to Oregon to go to law school at Lewis and Clark, the school Thane attended as well, there were 2.5 million people in the state of Oregon. I remember being struck by that. And I was coming out from the Galveston Houston area, there were more people in Houston, Texas than there were in the state of Oregon. It was really an amazing time in that state before it became as popular as it is now. Brad, how did you meet Thane? And how did you guys begin collaborating and working together?

Brad Warren  25:51  
Yeah, well, I'll tell you, it was in 93, when he won that case, the marsh decision, where the judge said that the industrialists complaining about the fishermen was like the fox complaining about the chickens not being fed. I mean, it was, he had just won that case. He and several other attorneys, and he had done this on a pro bono basis for a group of fishermen who I think it needs to be said that these are small bow fishermen who have a multi generational history of being environmental advocates defending the resource they depend upon. For way back before there was an environmental movement, these people were doing this in the 20s. And they were they the, the elders and leaders in the community. in Astoria, where he grew up, there were 1000s of these guys who made a living on the salmon that they caught at the mouth of the river. And that's the town he grew up in, it was salmon town. And it was a that was the cauldron that built his values. They were very progressive, very environmental, very solid feet on the ground. It wasn't like big, weird dreams, it was just people who who knew what it took to look after what they loved. And they did it. And he carried that as a legacy. You know, in 1993, when he won this case, it was there was a big gathering mostly about salmon, and sorry, forestry and how looking after the forest was necessary to keep the salmon healthy. And a side event for this on the street. In Portland, he was giving a talk about this lawsuit with the marshal limited just one. And he had people in tears of gratitude, the whole crowd, I don't think there was a dry face. And I was there covering it, writing about this whole event for actually a couple of different magazines for a fishing magazine. And for general interests, you know, the weekly in Seattle, I was a journalist as well for a long time. And I went up to Thane and interviewed him for it. And it was an immediate bond to like this is this is not just a source, this is a brother, this is someone I will know for the rest of, you know, his life or mine. And it just stayed that way. And it was obvious when a year or so later, I had been assigned by a fishing magazine to kind of deal with all the complicated environmental policy issues and write these Pilon features about them. Eventually, the owner said, what we need to get out in front of these and not just write about it, what do we do? Let's start something. So they kicked in a little seed money, we raised money from environmental foundations and elsewhere, and we started nfcc, the National fisheries conservation center, he was obviously one of the first people we wanted to bring in. And in part of his strengths that grew on me over the years, is that he was a brilliant networker. He just I could I could find people out of the woodwork all over the place who would help you because they loved him. He was. He was deep in many, many networks. And he was he was a kind of political favorite son of a democratic world in Oregon at the time. And when Congresswoman Elizabeth first retired, she tapped him and said, You, you run, you get to take the seat while it's in yours for the taking. And, you know, I think it was an interesting moment because Thane did enter the race. And he gave it some thought. And, and he did the work and he would walk around beating on doors and raising money. And he didn't like doing that. He didn't like begging which is what really the real work of being a congressman is. And he really didn't like the reality that dawned on him that this was going to lead to, you know, bitter, oppositional politics with opposition research people finding everything they could, and it would, it wasn't really him. He was happy to do that for himself. But he wasn't Okay, bringing his family through that grinder. And he withdrew. From that race. It was it was his for the taking to get into Congress. He would have won. It was widely agreed. And he walked. Because there's a there's something bigger than ambition. And that's looking after your kids and your family. You know, he just wasn't willing to put them through it.

Peter Ravella  30:25  
Yeah, he was he was remarkably fearless in that in the time that we had to spend together, the the, the, the weight of the issues that he got involved in and took on behalf of real people and real communities where his skill and professionalism directly affected the outcome of these people's lives. Thane did that fearlessly. He was a close confidant, as you said, of, of the of the political world governors in Oregon and Washington, in all of the elected officials were, I think, in his orbit of friends. I mean, Greg, he had a hell of a network, we were a small part of it. Tell us about about things kind of place in the community that you that you're aware of?

Greg Tozien  31:13  
Well, you know, that's a good point. And like I said, not to be redundant, but I think he was so good about defending people because he truly loves people, you know, we're supposed to, you know, like the Buddha said, the only three things that matter when you're dying is they are, you know, how kind were you? How much did you love? And how readily did you let go of those things that weren't meant for you. And Thane was shining in all three of those categories. You know, he was kind to everyone, he will and, and he, he loved it, seemingly everyone besides the ocean and the fish, and, you know, and, and he let go of things that weren't meant for him. He knew what was meant for him. He was an inspiring human being. the mayor at the time, Vera Katz lived behind him. And so he knew her really well. But you know, as to your point, Brad, you know, all the politicians, you know, you remember, Angus Duncan and Ted halleck? Yeah. You know, Peter, he, I met them through him. I'm sure you probably did, too. And, and Tom Ranieri, who, who owns the cinema 21, which is a great, one of the great American movie theaters has been around forever. And it's in Thane's neighborhood. And he said something when I talked to him, about thing, because we talked on the phone still, we're good friends. And we were talking about Thane, how much we missed them and stuff. And his comment was, Thane, if you had a success, it was Thane's success. He was so proud of you, that he went around telling people about your success. You know, he they never talked about his own successes and Brad, I'm sure when he went to court case, he didn't go around telling everyone how great it was that he won a court case. You know, it's it's that kind of generosity, that's almost Well, it's very rare, you know, but it's hard to imagine having that kind of generosity, you know, and he knew every politician and, and they loved them, you know, they even the ones that even the Republicans, you know, because they knew he was an honest guy. And he cared about people, and he only ever wanted justice for people. You know, when he was the head of the Urban League, he told me a story about an altercation, where he had to report the police when he was on a ride with them as the head of the Urban League that year. And they they had gotten a little rough with some people on the street who weren't white. And, and he immediately reported it to the the chief at the station. You know, it wasn't like he was gonna say, well, I'll let that go. You know, it was that kind of thing. You know, he was he believed in justice. Most of all, you know.

Tyler Buckingham  33:59  
I want to I want to ask a little bit more on what I want to get. I want to dig more into that. But really quickly, just just for our listeners who might go back in the archives, might be interested to listen to Thane's shows, and Thane was on a couple Friday, happy hours. I don't have those readily available. I wasn't able to pull them up. But he did do two episodes of changing waters. One was with Randy fisher of the Pacific States Marine Fisheries commission. And the other was with Tony Johnson of the Chinook tribe, and it's about bringing back canoe culture,

Peter Ravella  34:43  
Canoe culture, that was really a great show.

Tyler Buckingham  34:47  
and so I would encourage listeners to go back and if you go to the changing waters page, and you click on Thane's and Brad's name, it'll pull up a list of all of the changing waters episodes. And including the those two that Thane was the principal host on

Peter Ravella  35:05  
well, and you mentioned the shows that Thane has been on and I do encourage people to go back and listen and Tyler as you'll remember the case that Brad talked about where Thane and others challenged the US Army Corps of Engineers nationwide permits for aquaculture under the theory that they aquaculture practices in the Pacific Northwest in particular, were detrimental to the environment, it was the use of pesticides actually, and herbicides in the base system to control certain things that made it more difficult to grow. shellfish in these days, and Thane litigated that with a consortium of people, we had him on ASP. And it was, again, another case of Thane, working his butt off for no money. That was a pro bono case, I believe, for Thane just the kind of character he exhibited throughout his life and in trying to make sure that environmental practices were consistent as much as they can be with good environmental practice. I mean, he was, he was a hell of a guy. But, Greg, I wanted to reminisce a little bit about about Thane I know, you know, he was, as an older brother, you mentioned he was like an older brother to you. You are an older brother, I am the fourth of five brothers. So I, I had a domineering older brother. And one of the things that struck me about Thane was just how humble he was. He was incredibly gracious. And it's not a personality type that's typically associated with an older brother, how do you account for that? What made him such a, you know, gracious man?

Greg Tozien  36:48  
Well, as the older brother, who's a complete S.O.B., I appreciate what you're saying. But, you know, I believe, well, I'm more a Dallas than anything else, you know, I'm a fallen altar boy. And I believe in reincarnation. And I think Thane was a very old soul. You know, I think he had such a love of the earth, of nature of ecology, and of every human being he ever met, that I knew. And I knew him very closely for 30 years. And I, he was just pure love. And that's a very rare thing. So as a brother, I'm sure, he was probably fantastic. And I happen to have met his brothers. And, you know, it must have been a great thing to have him as a brother. That's all I can say. But a great person to have as a friend, you had asked when we were on the break about him in Paris. I had gotten married in Paris years ago, in the 80s. When I had an ad agency, and invited a ray, of course, I famous Thane was the first person I invited, but he couldn't go because he had a case or something like that an environmental case, or whatever it was. And I understood, of course, but he he, for years, he beat himself up, "I wish I'd gone there, I should have gone to your wedding, shouldn't have done that thing." You know, I said Thane don't worry about it. So one day, he called me many years later, this was just a few years ago. And he says, I'm going to Paris with a friend of his, judge friend who I knew too. And you got to come, you know, and show his Paris and stuff like this. And he really wanted me just to go back to Paris because he knew I'd like to go. And we went and by the end of that trip, everybody that I knew in Paris, knew Thane and were calling him by his first name and saying please come back. And you know, it was like, and he didn't speak any French, of course. But it was just, you know, and he remembered everybody's name. And he was just that kind of person, didn't matter where he went in the world. I remember when he went to you may know the guy's name. He went to Norway. And he was finished. And he would he went to Finland, he travelled a lot to go to places that had you know, aquatic environments and famous sea towns and things like that. But particularly in Finland, Finland, Norway and Scandinavia. And he he ended up on that boat that that guy has I think he's Norwegian has that super ecological boats that's costing millions of dollars he's world famous. And and that he's like Best Friend of Thane's then right and things on the boat and it was that kind of thing. You know, it was-- people loved him, you know, you know, what am I Well no, I don't care what country they're from somebody who's that full of love and warmth and is that interested in them? You know, they just bond with him and and they did people all over the world loved Thane.

Peter Ravella  39:40  
I got to share the story along those lines of his ability to connect with people on short notice and become a you know, kind of a quick, a quick and trusted friend. I was sitting in my house in Austin, Texas, one evening, and I think you called me From a bar in Portland across the street from Powell's bookstore, he said, Hey, you said, hey, guess who I'm sitting with? I said, What are you doing? He said, Thane and I are sitting here with your brother Neil. And I said, What do you mean? You're sitting with my brother Neil, my older brother Dale, and my older brother, Neil had jumped on a BMW motorcycle, was one of those deals where he was going to travel by motorcycle around the Pacific Northwest from Texas, and it was like, you know, multi month trip. And he ended up at Powell's bookstore, and he was listening to I think that was a reading going on or something. And he ran into you and Thane just completely without any advance notice of who you guys were. And you strike up a conversation with my brother, you got to tell the story. I mean, it's just an amazing coincidence in one night, that he you guys ran it, it was just a remarkable story.

Greg Tozien  40:54  
Well, it does illustrate how powerful his his magnet was for people and, and how much we love you, frankly, Peter, because we were all like brothers in those days. And, as your co host asked about the magic of Portland in those days, I mean, it was the kind of town you know, I was used to the East coast, my father was born in Manhattan. And so we went there a lot when I was a kid and stuff and, and I've, you know, lived in cities and things. And when I got to Portland, it was Portland was like a big town. You know, it wasn't really like, what I would call a city in a way. But it had more umph intellectually with Powell's and the concert hall and the musicians and the writers and, and actors and stuff. It was really a very educated town with a lot of really nice people. And so it was easy to meet people and stuff. But when they would get in somebody's orbit, like when your brother was in town, there was no you know, in Portland in those days, there was no you know, walls for people. It's much different now of course, there are people from all over the world living there. But Thane was like the mayor, you know, of that kind of thing. You know, the the Welcome Wagon. And I remember when I don't know if you've met my friends, the rock band, the guys who slept on the floor of our office, Peter. The night I met him on a Sunday night, and my wife and I had gone to see another band. And these guys didn't have a place to stay. And I said to my wife, and she looked at her and she goes, they're not staying in our place. So we lived in a Microscopic apartment, Portland, so put them on the Florida the or I put them on the floor of the Oregon Insider, the environmental newspaper that you hired me on and let him spend the night I went home and was laying in bed at it three o'clock morning, I woke up on a Sunday night and I put this book total strangers, four guys with a van and all their stuff in my office and I just had gotten the job. You just hired me. I thought Oh, geez, I could-

Peter Ravella  42:58  
We had an open door policy.

Greg Tozien  42:59  
They could steal all the computers you know, I did never met these guys in my life. I didn't know their phone number address or anything. So I got up at 6am and went and brought them doughnuts and coffee on a Sunday morning. And they were all sleeping in their sleeping bags still on the floor. They said boy you get up early, you know, but I was so paranoid they were going to rip us off. And but guess what the next time they came to town because they were well known punk band from Canada. And next time they came through on their way to San Francisco, they said we're gonna go to San Francisco, come back. We want to spend a week in, Can we stay in your office? I said I don't work there anymore. I changed jobs. I got another job. I called Thane instantly. I said Hang on, I'll call you back. I said thing. And I didn't know him that long. I just got into town a month or two earlier. I said Listen, I met this rock punk band from from from Canada. And I can't, I used to let him sleep on the floor of the Oregon Insider, but I don't work there anymore. And my apartments too small. You want to put up a punk band from Canada for a week? You know? So that they can go San Francisco and come back leave their shit at your house. And he goes Yes, send him off. That sounds like fun. And he had a beautiful house and he was in a well well groomed neighborhood. Can you imagine someone's gonna put a four guys from Canada punk band and never met them in his life. And of course, they became lifelong friends. When we were in Paris. They came over the guy and his wife they were both musicians that B's and CC with their son Charlie, and we spent a month in Paris all of us in this huge pad. We landed a fantastic apartment. But it's like that, they were friends with his for the rest of their lives. And there's some of the first people I called when I heard about him. Yeah, you know.

Peter Ravella  44:41  
That does say a lot about that period about that community and the friendships we all had. It was really great. I was so thrilled, Brad when when I think we started ASPN and I called up Thane and I said thank you you know we would love to have a show from the Pacific Northwest you're so involved in fisheries, we would, how Would you like to, to do a podcast and maybe host a show? And he said, Well, I don't know if that's really something I would want. I don't know if I would be any good at that. But I do know this guy, Brad Warren, who would be really good at that. And I should introduce you to him. Can you tell us a little bit about, about putting that show together with, with Thane and how you guys approached it?

Brad Warren  45:25  
Sure, yeah. Well, you know, Thane, was sitting on troves of stories he wanted to tell, and it, it didn't take much for him to get excited about it. And he had actually, for several years been advocating, that we connect with you guys and look for opportunities to collaborate and, you know, at each other's efforts. And I think in a fundamental way, he understood that we, as a society, as a coastal society, have a big lift to do to become competent, which we're not now to manage the kind of changes that are coming our way that are unfolding under our feet, and along the shore, as we speak, as a function of climate change. And it's not just sea level rise. You know, it's we're dealing with changing ocean chemistry, we're dealing with thermal change in the water, we're dealing with a complete change in the in what it is to live on the shore and depend on the resources that swim. And it's requires thinking across jurisdictions thinking across the usual silos, and he got it what you were doing, fit that, that need in a way that, you know, we needed to be starting this conversation. And that was really what persuaded me to take it on. I was I was a little bit reluctant, because we had a lot on our plate, doing some of the hands on work, designing projects, to learn how to manage this kind of change, and kind of look after these resources. You know, having been a journalist, I knew somewhat how much work it is. Yes. Oh, yeah. I was a little reluctant. And, you know, he was just so enthusiastic. It was like, Well, of course, we're gonna do this. And, you know, it became something that we were able to kind of spot each other and brainstorm a little bit. And it's been something really became something I treasure. Really glad to get to work for you. That's Thane's way of seeing the connections. Yeah. So he did well,

Peter Ravella  47:35  
He connected the dots. And it's a big loss for us, I have to say, to lose the perspective of someone who had such a deep understanding of coastal issues in the Pacific Northwest. And I'm just thankful, Brad that your show is going to continue. Even without Thane I think it's been a great addition to the American troll on Podcast Network, you had a great show that came out just just a few days ago on up ending global hydrogen, about the deep ocean carbon sink, and its connection to global warming and a possible mitigation technique. They're really important shows. And I'm just I'm just so sad to lose Thane. And just to lose his friendship and his contribution not just to coastal news today and ASPN, but to the community that he served all over the Pacific Northwest and really around the world. Just a remarkable, remarkable man. You know, tozi any closing thoughts?

Greg Tozien  48:44  
Well, I just, I wanted to thank you two guys, for having the show. Because I believe people like Thane who, who really lives examples for us, of how to behave, you know, in the world, and how to commit to others to serve other people. And I think Finally, I figured out that we are here to serve others, and they're here to serve us. And and Thane was, he was in 100% with that. And I think it's great that you're featuring him because as people who work in coastal matters, I don't think they come much finer than he, you know.

Peter Ravella  49:24  
No, Brad, what do you what would you like to say wrapping up this tribute to Thane tienson, our dear friend.

Brad Warren  49:32  
Well, you both nailed it. I'll add one thing that's maybe a sad note, but it for me personally, there is a sense of being diminished in his absence. We are made greater by people like Thane, and I feel walking around in the world a little bit smaller. And I have immense gratitude To him for having, in so many ways made it possible For me and for many of us working on this to swing and make a difference. I mean, he taught us a lot about how to do it, his political strategies, simple, direct, his negotiating approach, on many issues. He really was a terrific guide. And you lose someone who's that kind of friend and mentor, you feel it. And I just walk around feeling sad and small, a lot of time without it.

Peter Ravella  50:37  
Yeah, we it's a it's just a real loss, a real loss to the community and to all of us. You know, Brad, I think, Greg, we've been talking about trying to put together a fundraising campaign and to donate to organizations that they can support it. I know, we haven't worked out all of the details. But could either of you speak to that? Because we will put that announcement on coastal news today about how people can contribute to causes that they believed in? Can you comment on that, Brad, maybe help us along on that path? I know we're gonna try to do that soon.

Brad Warren  51:11  
I certainly can. The board of nfcc in fact, met this week and enthusiastically endorsed the creation of the Thane Tienson Memorial Fund for salmon conservation, will be used to drive some of the cutting edge work that thing was helping to, to move forward. An example of this, and there are a variety of products, but one that really didn't cross our transom until December when the research came out showing it there's a toxic dust from tires. That's getting into salmon creeks in urbanized areas. And it's very lethal to fish killing 40 to 90% of returning adult salmon. And, and young salmon has a really high mortality. And this is we are pretty sure a solvable problem and we we are starting to poke at this, and Thane was was on tap to attend one of the first organizing meetings for this effort. And he didn't make it. That was the day he died.

Peter Ravella  52:20  
Well, I'm going to publicly pledge right now $500 to that fund to Thane Tienson, what is it called Memorial Fund for salmon conservation. Got it. When we get that fund identified and the website set up, please let us know. We're going to run that on coastal news today and keep it on there for a while. But I challenge our listeners out there and people who loved Thane Tienson to make a contribution in his legacy, because he did such important work. And the ability to extend that influence and perspective into the world further than his physical life would be a great tribute to him. I know he would love that. So I'm looking forward to I'm pledging my 500 bucks. And Brad and I look forward to that. growing as a fund to do some good work, that Thane would have loved to have been done.

Brad Warren  53:14  
Thank you, you become this the second of the original kind of challenge donors to this. The first is Terry Williams, one of the elders in the tulalip tribe here, who voted for it as a board member of national fisheries conservation center, and threw down 500 bucks to inspire others to contribute. So between just put our challenge funded at 1000 bucks to match the market. I can tell you one of the other things this will support because it was dear to Fein and the moment of opportunity to move this is now. And this is the prospect of dam removal and transformation in the energy system in the Northwest. So fish at home. There's some there's a whole new and we'll talk about this more later. But there is a whole new moment of opportunity emerging to do something that's been very difficult to do and frankly, I thought was impossible. I did.

Peter Ravella  54:08  
Well, isn't that amazing. It is you know, the elwha dam removal and on on Juan de Fuca straight up in Washington State. And there's serious consideration about the dams in the future of the dam system on the Snake River. These are major major facilities but the, this would get you know, I always I, I thought it was impossible to and it's actually seriously being considered and it's this is one of the sad things about this I know Thane would have been so proud to have been part of the process to help that process along. It's a very complex one and but what a legacy that would be if that those salmon runs up into the Snake River and into Idaho, it could be restored. They've just been decimated by the dams.

Brad Warren  54:39  
The interesting thing is, and this is this is part of what's so great about this system, even with the dams operating and killing them by the millions those fish are being recovered. The Endangered Species Act is not a graveyard, it is a working tool of recovery and enormous improvements are being made, even with this huge load of mortality imposed on that stock. And what's going on now is an opportunity to take out the four really big and not very productive in terms of energy, but big famine killing dams on the lower River. Wow. And replace that power with, you know, wind and solar produced in the Inland Northwest in that region. So people benefit from it. They're they're not getting abandoned, and reorganize the grid so that it can handle this, you know, variable source renewable power. This is this is actually a key step that the Northwest must undertake in order to achieve climate goals. Yeah, we've really got to go this route, have you organized grid that can go deeper green. And the fact that this now has support from, you know, a Republican, Mike Simpson from Idaho, pitching this in Congress, constructs the framework where a bipartisan consensus could conceivably be built? You know, it's a long road, it's going to take some consensus building and negotiation Thane would have been a gift to this and he will be from his grave enthusiastically cheering this forward.

Peter Ravella  56:29  
No kidding. I you know what, I just missed the show that you guys would have done on that topic. Final Word tozi. And why don't you bring this to a close?

Greg Tozien  56:41  
Well, I have to agree with with Brad that I was really very sad. And I'm still very sad about things passing. I lost him and my best friend in Europe, who I lived with in Paris for years. And I'm dedicating my, my book to them, but, and my parents who are gone. But the other thing about that about missing him so much Brad is the way I've gotten over it is to, to commit to living in honor of Thane you know, and my buddy in Paris, because they were two of the most generous people I've ever met in my life. And, and Thane gave me Portland, and this guy gave me Paris as far as just opening them up for me and completely selflessly. So I've, every day when I get up and look in the mirror, and I say, you know, I'm doing it to honor the departed, you know, and I think that's what you're talking about you guys with the end. Thank you for the fund Brad. Oh, I'll donate to a to of course. And we can do that by what just going on to your website.

Brad Warren  57:47  
Yeah, is it Yeah, their pay pal button to donate there and it's it's not stipulated what it's for. So you'll want to add a note and then we will have the the specific thing tend to donate button up shortly. But in meantime, we have a general one and you can add a note, right.

Peter Ravella  58:05  
And folks can find the website you go to fisheriesconservation.org  to make a contribution to nfcc. You can use the general button now and soon to have a special contribution for the Thane Tienson fund. I know, I'm going to do that. And, Brad for all the work that you do and for being a contributor to ASPN. We just want to thank you and in Greg, for your friendship over the many years. Sure, wish we were. We were closer together. I miss seeing you every day and love you guys. And ladies and gentlemen, Thane tinson, a dear friend of coastal news today in ASPN, former co host of the changing waters podcast with Brad Warren. It was a privilege to to have him on the network and we're gonna miss him.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.

The American Shoreline Podcast Network and coastalnewstoday.com are brought to you by LJA engineering with 28 offices along the Gulf Coast. The folks at LJA engineering are at the top of the craft in the areas of coastal restoration, coastal infrastructure, rivers and channels, numerical modeling, disaster recovery, and design and construction oversight. Be sure to check out their brand new coastal resilience department headed up by ASPN's own Peter Ravella, find them@lja.com. Be sure to subscribe to the coastal news today daily blast newsletter at coastalnewstoday.com for daily updates on the events and news that shape the coastal discussion. Want to support the discussion and promote your company? We have sponsorship packages available now. Email me to learn more at Chloe at coastalnewstoday.com. That's c-h-l-o-e, at coastalnewstoday.com. Hope to hear from you and enjoy the show.